Fr. Robert Barron - Word On Fire
Michael Voris - The Vortex
St. Leonard of Port Maurice - The Fewness of the Saved (read by Fr. Michael Rodriguez)
I saw the video above from Fr. Robert Barron at least a year ago, maybe more. It was sometime after I came back to the Church, and I remember having the following reactions/thoughts:
- "This video is so deceiving and misleading. And I have never read anything credible from any reputable Catholic source to support what he is suggesting."
- "This is a very intelligent man. How can he be speaking with such ignorance?"
- "This video could, by itself, cause souls to go to Hell. I need to do something to refute this error."
At the time, there was then swirling discussion with a number of my former friends (those whom I still love and pray for often but who would not uncommonly run from tough discussions and challenging subjects, among those certainly being Hell and the Damned). I quickly found that I was alone, on an island when it came to believing that Fr. Barron was widely off the mark with his assertions.
That was right around the same time I began being more and more compelled to read pre-conciliar texts from saints, popes, et al...finding I was anything but alone in a broader and more comforting historical Communion of the Saints.
That final thought, "I need to do something," I hope is now coming more to fruition thanks to Michael Voris' recent response video to Fr. Barron.
Right after seeing that episode of "The Vortex," a good friend of mine also sent me the following article written by a local blogger and graduate of Franciscan University of Steubenville, Mr. Christian Ohnimus.
Now, right off the bat, I hope to establish something key. As I understand it, the blog is managed by a number of West Michigan Catholics, my strongest and sincerest hope would be that this post - which will be somewhat in depth - will spur "dialogue" (as the post-conciliar Church is so fond of) with these local individuals so that they can come to a "deeper understanding" of authentic Catholic teaching and tradition. And I am saying that with as little intent to sound condescending, arrogant or the like as possible.
There has been a systemic indoctrination of the "Church of Nice" mentality being propagated most assuredly at Aquinas College (of which I am a graduate and experienced first hand) and also, without a doubt, at Franciscan University...touted by many as the premier Catholic higher education institution in the United States.
By the way, just to be crystal clear, I am not singling out any particular faculty or staff member at either college. It's simply a candid assessment of the "warm fuzzy Kumbaya" theology and psychology being promoted at these two schools and many others.
I can understand how someone like Mr. Ohnimus would see the video from Mr. Voris as snarky, overbearing and perhaps even lacking in charity. I will admit that I do, from time to time, grow a bit weary from the same style of delivery in every episode of "The Vortex" (often craving something of a bit more substance and a bit less rhetoric). Yet in spite of that, I am beyond confident that this it was not the goal of Mr. Voris to "defame" Fr. Barron. It is precisely because of the seriousness of the subject that Mr. Voris has every reason to respond to this “deeply misleading” video post from Fr. Barron.
So, as I like to do so often in order to ensure that I am capturing the full context of what I comment on, I will post the original text of Mr. Ohnimus (hereafter referred to as Mr. O) and will then post my comments below. For a change of pace, I will put his text in red and mine will remain in black. Any external sources being used as quotes will be in green (Sacred Scripture, Saints, Encyclicals, etc.).
Well-known evangelist Father Barron, in discussing Hell, hopes and prays for universal salvation, stating that we cannot positively know that any human person is in Hell. Catholic commentator Michael Voris, in a video entitled simply “Fr. Barron is Wrong”, volunteers a brutish retort. After disregarding the Church’s silence on the issue as meaningless, Voris argues that many souls must be in Hell and to hope otherwise is naïve and erroneous. Voris appeals to scripture, Fatima, and ultimately questions the entire priesthood and Fr. Barron’s own vocation if no one is in Hell.
I find Voris’ response and the crowd that has come to cheer him on disturbing. What is so disturbing to me is not his belief that some must, seemingly of necessity, go to Hell as part of the Divine Plan but that Voris is so compelled to defend the Church from such faithful Catholics as Fr. Barron, to the point of defaming him.
Mr. Voris isn’t defaming Fr. Barron because he hasn’t said anything false or even twisted. Mr. O could perhaps accuse him of detracting, a sin of no less serious nature if it has no good cause. However, Mr. Voris has very good cause to raise the alarm, as will be shown.
I believe, as I think Fr. Barron does, that in all probability someone is in Hell;There is no doubt. This will also be proven.
Voris is probably correct in his assertion that souls will indeed be damned to eternal torment but like Fr. Barron I hope for everyone’s salvation. Despite Voris’ many counter-arguments, no matter how strong they may be, Fr. Barron’s beliefs regarding Heaven and Hell are in no way heretical, in no way contradict Church doctrine, and do not lead souls into sin.Fr. Barron's comments may not lead souls into sin, but they certainly do not do anything to steer them away from sin nor to encourage them away from it. He may not be encouraging sinful behavior, but by the overemphasis on mercy (as is so typical of the post-conciliar “Church of Nice” [as Voris rightly calls it]), we are not encouraging others to do what was first proclaimed by St. John the Baptist and, shortly thereafter by the one whom he came to announce, our Lord Jesus Christ: REPENT! DO PENANCE AND BE BAPTIZED! We are going to see the oh-so-prevalent theme of hyper-reliance (aka false reliance) upon God's mercy with absolutely no mention of His justice. Therefore, consider the following:
Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) 2:
21 They that fear the Lord, keep his Commandments, and will have patience even until his visitation,
22 Saying: If we do not penance, we shall fall into the hands of the Lord, and not into the hands of men.
23 For according to his greatness, so also is his mercy with him.
(He alludes to 2 Kings xxiv. 14. In this world, God punishes with mercy; in the next, with severity, Daniel xiii. 23. (Calmet) - Haydock1859)
This entire chapter speaks of true reliance upon God's mercy, that which is patient and persevering and which, above all, exhibits humility and fear of the Lord (which is "the beginning of wisdom" as says Proverbs). Where else have we seen that God is merciful to those who fear him?
50 And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.The Blessed Virgin Mary declared this truth in her Magnificat, the precursor and total exemplification of the Beatitudes 30 years before they were proclaimed on the Mount of Olives.
This is crucial to try to reiterate over and over to everyone. God's mercy is limitless in the sense that there is no sin he cannot / will not forgive if the person seeking His mercy is truly contrite of heart and repentant.
However, God's mercy is limited insofar as it cannot contradict His justice. Fr. Barron rightly calls out that Jesus Christ went "all the way to the limits of God-forsakenness" (4:52) in order that all could be saved, but He also definitively stated that not all would be saved.
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.
There is a very real reason why Pope Benedict had the words "for all" properly translated back to "for many" during the consecration of the Novus Ordo liturgy...because Christ, in His propitiatory sacrifice, still could not do anything to appease the just wrath of the Father for those who would nail Him to the Cross over and over again without repentance, both then and now.
Jesus cried out those famous last words, "forgive them Father, they know not what they do." And yet, how many throughout the last two millennia reject His grace and persist in wretchedness?
Indeed, it is precisely BECAUSE OF the extreme sacrificial nature that Christ made that the ongoing and repeated rejection of His divine mandate to "be baptized and do penance" is the stamp that seals the deal on the damnation of so many.
Back to Mr. O:
Instead, as he tends to do in his work, Fr. Barron enlightens and builds up others towards Heaven. He warns of the very real danger of Hell, explains how even this dark concept is a manifestation of God’s love and mercy, and, in hoping for universal salvation, places no limits on God’s mercy.Well, I just touched the tip of the iceberg on the true limits of God's mercy. But rather than being accused of conjecture, let me turn to some voices of the past still echoing their divinely bestowed authority throughout the ages:
Pope Pius IX, Syllabus of Errors #17:
“Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ.” - CONDEMNED
At the end of this encyclical, Pope Pius IX details that these errors were (and still are today) being spread by the Masonic sects trying to destroy the Church, and that it is from these errors “that the synagogue of Satan, which gathers its troops against the Church of Christ, takes its strength.” The devil’s #1 victory is when nobody believes he exists and that nobody goes to spend eternity with him. As Archbishop Fulton Sheen once said, "God's name is I AM WHO AM, while the devil mocks God saying I AM WHO AM NOT."
It is CRUCIAL for me to point out here, as I have done so many times in the past, that many of these quotes I am supplying are from former Popes. And just as we need to understand Christ to be ONE and His Church to be ONE, so too must we understand the entire Petrine lineage to be ONE. Alpha and Omega, non-contradictory. There must indeed be a "hermeneutic of continuity" amongst the voices of the Holy Fathers throughout the ages, in such a way that if one were found to be contradicting another, we must always defer to the one in unison with all of his predecessors.
Pope St. Pius X, Lamentabili Sane, 1907:
"The fact that many Catholic writers also go beyond the limits determined by the Fathers and the Church herself is extremely regrettable. In the name of higher knowledge and historical research (they say), they are looking for that progress of dogmas which is, in reality, nothing but the corruption of dogmas."
"What if some novel contagions try to infect the whole Church, and not merely a tiny part of it? Then he will take care to cleave to antiquity, which cannot now be led astray by any deceit of novelty." - St. Vincent de Lerins
The Church, while condemning the heresy of universalism that everyone will be saved, which disregards free will and our ability to reject God, in her wisdom, has never posited that anyone is in Hell or condemned the possibility that everyone can be saved. The Church, like us, simply cannot know who will be saved.
We could safely finish/add on to this sentence to say “…or who will (or will not) be damned.” The Church may not be able to definitively declare at the highest degree of infallibility that a specific person is in hell. However, the idea that the Church has "never posited that anyone is in Hell" is patently false and, in fact, where I disagree with Mr. Voris, or at least his wording. In Mr. Voris' video, he states that "the Church has never declared on that subject of people being in Hell. That is correct...it is beyond the Church's authority and competence to declare that humans are in Hell." (1:56)
This is false and I disagree. I think I know what he means, that no single person has ex cathedra been declared in Hell, but the Church has declared countless times that souls are in Hell for the rest of eternity, and beyond that she has declared what kinds of people are in Hell.
Catechism of the Council of Trent:
He descended into Hell to Proclaim His Power: “Another reason why Christ the Lord descended into hell is that there, as well as in heaven and on earth, He might proclaim His power and authority, and that every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. And here, who is not filled with admiration and astonishment when he contemplates the infinite love of God for man! Not satisfied with having undergone for our sake a most cruel death, He penetrates the inmost recesses of the earth to transport into bliss the souls whom He so dearly loved and whose liberation from thence He had achieved.”Are we really to believe that there is nobody there "under the earth" to be made to bend a knee at His Sovereignty? That He descended into Hell in vain to a vacant realm with nobody there?
There is part that comes to mind from the movie Hook where Peter Pan asks why they have [imaginary] silverware if they don't use them. To which one of the young Lost Boys responds, "we have them so we don't have to use them."
I think it is safe to say that such logic does not exist in the divine mind of God. Hell does not exist so that He does not have to use it. God made nothing in vain, and certainly not Hell.
What types of people are there?
1 Corinthians 6:9 Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
10 Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.
Catechism of the Council of Trent - 8th Commandment:
“He who continues in [the sin of calumny]is destined to the unending punishments of hell. Let no one indulge the hope of obtaining the pardon of his calumnies or detractions, until he has repaired the injury which they have inflicted on the honour or fame of another, whether this was done in a court of justice, or in private and familiar conversation”These are just samples of the countless sources available declaring those who cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. The quote from the Catechism of Trent duly and clearly points out that it is those who "continue" (aka persist) in [mortal] sin who are destined for Hell. In addition, that quote is only speaking of one of the 10 Commandments, and yet we know that any violation of those Commandments of God is worthy of condemnation.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them; he it is that loveth me. And he that loveth me, shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
24 He that loveth me not, keepeth not my words. And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me.
32 Every one therefore that shall confess me before men, I will also confess him before my Father who is in heaven.
33 But he that shall deny me before men, I will also deny him before my Father who is in heaven.Those who do not keep the Commandments do not love Christ. They deny Him, and - as such - He will deny them before the Father.
It seems most prudent to here supply a longer quote about the particular judgment of men.
The Four Last Things (Fr. Martin von Cochem, 1899)
“We know from the testimony of Christ’s own words that the damned will be permitted to speak to him after they have received their sentence. He tells us, ‘They also answer Him saying: Lord, when did we ever see Thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to Thee?’ (Mt 25:44).
When the lost souls perceive that there is no remnant of hope that their terrible sentence of condemnation might be mitigated, they will, in their despair, pour out horrible imprecations: ‘Cursed be the parents who gave birth to us; cursed be all those who led us into sin; cursed be all men who have lived with us upon this earth; cursed be He who created us; cursed be the blood of Christ, wherewith we were redeemed; cursed be all the saints of God!’
When Christ hears these blasphemies, He will exclaim in holy indignation: ‘They have blasphemed God, they have cursed Me and My saints! You have heard it yourselves, now what think you?’
Thereupon all the angels and saints will answer: ‘They are worthy of eternal death, of the everlasting pains of hell! Away with them to the place of torment, away with them into everlasting fire!’
Then that will be fulfilled which is foretold in the book of Wisdom: ‘18 And his zeal will take armour, and he will arm the creature for the revenge of his enemies. 19 He will put on justice as a breastplate, and will take true judgment instead of a helmet. 20 He will take equity for an invincible shield: 21 And he will sharpen his severe wrath for a spear, and the whole world shall fight with him against the unwise. 22 Then shafts of lightning shall go directly from the clouds, as from a bow well bent, they shall be shot out, and shall fly to the mark. 23 And thick hail shall be cast upon them from the stone casting wrath: the water of the sea shall rage against them, and the rivers shall run together in a terrible manner. 24 A mighty wind shall stand up against them, and as a whirlwind shall divide them: and their iniquity shall bring all the earth to a desert, and wickedness shall overthrow the thrones of the mighty.’ (Wisdom 5).
St. John, in the Apocalypse, says: ‘And a mighty angel took up a stone, as it were a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying: With such violence as this shall Babylon, that great city, be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.’ (Apoc. 18:21)
Do not these words that the angel uttered signify that all the lost souls will go odwn into hell with the impetus of a millstone that sinks to the bottom of the abyss of waters into which it was hurled?
Reflect upon this, o reader. Reflect upon it often, and do not fritter away wthy life in idle pleasures, but look to it that thou save thy soul. Call upon God with all the fervor of thy heart, and beg Him to grant thee a favorable sentence in the day of final judgment…”Fr. Barron points out that St. Thomas Aquinas believed that God even takes joy in damning the reprobate and in their eternal perdition (with which Fr. Barron disagrees). This is surely foreign to our 20th/21st century ears and even seems to go against the notion of the omnibenevolence of God. However, after reading the above, we can perhaps even understand that God, who is always peaceful (as I believe it was St. Francis of Assisi said), can also only be of joy (even amidst sorrow) in His perfect and duly executed justice.
Again, back to Mr. O:
Voris, however, states that the Church is silent because it has no authority on the subject and that to appeal to the Church’s silence as license to employ our own rational judgment is wrong. I find such a stance incomprehensibly absurd, especially in light of Voris’ subsequent quoting of scripture to attack Fr. Barron and to confirm that there are human souls in Hell. I must ask, however, how can Voris possess the authority to interpret scripture in answering the question “who’s in Hell?” but not the Church?Really? He's going to go there? To the "who are you to interpret" argument? This is such a tired defense. A faithful Catholic uses infallible Sacred Scripture infallibly interpreted to defend authentic Catholic teaching, and the confused or malicious party defensively retorts, "who are YOU to interpret scripture. You're not the Magisterium. And you do realize that as Catholics we are not sola scriptura, right?"
It's a broken record defense and a manifest red herring. It’s fallacious reasoning, which is one of the 6 tricks of the devil detailed by St. Ignatius Loyola in the Rules for Discernment of Spirits.
Here are some facts:
Fr. Barron is not “the Church.”
He is not even part of the Magisterium, so saying he definitively interprets scripture better than a lay person is nonsense. This would be no different than saying that all the priests and bishops who signed the declaration by Henry VIII understood scripture better than St. Thomas More.
Fr. Barron is admittedly siding with the likes of Karl Barth and Hans Urs von Balthasar over the likes of Sts. Augustine and Aquinas, two Doctors of the Church and the two greatest theologians AND philosophers of the years "A.D."
Worth noting, there has been plenty of discussion about whether or not Von Balthasar was a heretic (or espoused heretical opinions). This is not a matter of siding with Augustine over Aquinas on an undefined matter, this is a matter of siding with potential heretics over two decidedly saintly and authoritative men.
Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus of Errors, 1864, #13The method and principles by which the old scholastic doctors cultivated theology are no longer suitable to the demands of our times and to the progress of the sciences - CONDEMNED
Pope Pius XII, Menti Nostrae - Thoughts for the Clergy of the World (1950)
The greatest importance must be given to philosophical and theological teaching "according to the method of the Angelic Doctor" brought up to date and adapted to meet modern errors...It must be added that the priest who is the "salt of the earth" and "the light of the world" must labor mightily for the defense of the Faith by preaching the Gospel and confuting the doctrinal errors opposed to it which are disseminated today among the people by every possible means. But these errors cannot be efficaciously fought if the unassailable principles of Catholic philosophy and theology are not thoroughly known.Note that Popes Pius IX and XII both agree with each other that the teachings of the Angelic Doctor (Aquinas) and those others of old must be adhered to and utilized in the demonstration and promulgation of truth. But here we are seeing the exact opposite. Dissension from Aquinas and Augustine in favor of Modernist novelty...
I am hesitant to personally interpret scripture, especially in condemnation of a fellow Catholic. Instead, in trying to be docile to the Truth and not be misled by my own shortsightedness, I must turn to the Church for guidance. Because the Church has not declared anyone to be in Hell in light of these scripture passages I can only consider that a possible interpretation but not one possessing definitive, doctrinal authority.Look, there is a difference between "personally interpreting scripture" and doing it properly. If Mr. O could reasonably prove that Mr. Voris' utilization of the Book of Apocalypse (Revelation) is incorrect, that would be something worth reading. But as such, he just plays what I commonly refer to as the "nanny nanny boo boo" card...in other words, the thing you spit out when you can't think of anything intelligible, concrete or veracious to say.
It is true, we must turn to the Church, yes. Always. Using resources such as Haydock 1859 is always a good choice. So what sources can we be assured that Fr. Barron is using to support his alleged exegetically infallible understanding of scripture? As I tried to point out before, we must understand all of this in terms of the eternal Church. The 2,000 year old Church, not the “Church of Nice.”
The Curé d'Ars by Abbé François Trochu (1927)"Did M. le Curé preach long sermons?" Mgr Convert one day asked Père Drémieux. "Yes, long ones, and always on Hell...there are people who say there is no Hell [or that nobody is there]. Ah, well...he believed in it!"That is the type of preaching a Catholic priest does. One which speaks of the "Last Four Things" (Death, Judgment, Heaven, Hell). Preaching about the "good hope that all might be saved" does not fall in line with "Vianneyesque" pastoral care...pretty telling when a priest disagrees with the Patron Saint of Parish Priests.
The fact that we are sitting here getting hung up on whether or not this ex cathedra declaration that anyone is in hell has ever happened is a moot point. Completely and utterly. Which is what Voris was getting at when he said as much. We know that people are in hell. We know this absolutely, and in fact we do know it infallibly because we declare as much in our [infallible] creed: "I believe in one baptism for the remission of sins." Without such baptism, there is no such remission.
It’s no different than the fact that all faithful Catholics knew Mary was conceived without sin prior to the solemn declaration in 1854. To suggest nobody is in hell is a complete and utter 180 from the 2,000 year old Magisterium.
The Church teaches that there is no hope of salvation apart from Christ and those who reject His bride reject Him. In no way does it follow, however, that some must of necessity then be damned to Hell as we know the heart of no man at the moment of his death. Again, we can put no limits on God’s mercy and every man, even in his final moment, may repent, accept Christ, and be saved.Well, there it is. Fr. Barron references Rob Bell and his universal salvation theology, but then goes on to say that the position of Von Balthasar (and, in fact, his own position) is much different in that it simply "hopes" for everyone's salvation. This is a false hope. It is no different than declaring all are saved. They are two fruits of the same tree with roots of naivity, ignorance, confusion and pride.
Why is it that an MSNBC host can recognize this is a "changing of the gospel," but Fr. Robert Barron - rector of the seminary at Mundelein and popular Catholic American figure - cannot??
Mr. Bashir quotes, "you're amending the gospel, the Christian message, so that it's palatable to contemporary people who find, for example, the idea of hell and heaven very difficult to stomach...it's much easier to swallow."
He gets it, and yet this sounds eerily similar to the declared "aggiornamento" of the Second Vatican Council...the reconciling of the modern times with the doctrines and dogmas of the Church.
Many men have died cursing God with their final breath. The verse “every knee shall bend” does not mean all suddenly repent at the judgment throne and then being forgiven. No way. If we die in the state of ONE mortal sin, we are damned. We can look to the Ignatian Spiritual Exercises for this. There is a profound meditation on the following:
- Lucifer, the greatest and most favored of the angels, was cast down for ONE single declaration of rebellion (mortal sin).
- Adam and Eve (and all of mankind), humans being God's most favored creation, were condemned to death for ONE sin of disobedience and pride (mortal sin).
- Many humans, since Redemption was offered, have been damned for just ONE mortal sin having died outside of a state of sanctifying grace.
We really should get out of the practice of shooting those closest to us. As Catholic author and blogger Mark Shea notes, “The exasperating thing about Voris’ consistent method is that he targets, not heretics or enemies of the Faith, but innocent people, disobedient to no precept of Holy Church, and dissenting from no doctrine of Holy Church, and then maliciously smears them with the suggestion (and in this case the flat declaration), that they are believing, living (and in Barron’s case) teaching error.”Mr. Shea has it completely backwards. It is the post-conciliar Church who invites Jews, Muslims, pagans, heretics and schismatics to have universal prayer ceremonies but “excommunicates” those trying to preserve the universal and eternal priesthood and the Mass of All-Time.
However, those who teach error, as has been dutifully charged to us countless times in the past, MUST be refuted! Why? Because they run the risk of causing souls to be damned! We are sheep, and a bad shepherd will take souls straight into the pit! (quote Pius X for that one, and with respect to ignorance not being an excuse).
Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum
"There can be nothing more dangerous than those heretics who admit nearly the whole cycle of doctrine, and yet by one word, as with a drop of poison, infect the real and simple faith taught by our Lord and handed down by Apostolic tradition"
"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis." - Dante Alighieri
Pope Julius III, Council of Trent, Session XIII, 1551, Ch. VIII
"It is not enough to declare the truth unless errors be exposed and repudiated..."
1 Timothy 6:20
Keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding the profane novelties of words, and oppositions of knowledge falsely so called.
Haydock 1859 --- "Oppositions of knowledge falsely so called". St. Chrysostom understands in particular the errors of the Gnostics, so called from the same Greek word, who were the successors of Simon Magus. But they perhaps not having the name when St. Paul wrote, we may rather understand heretics in general, who all pretend to an uncommon knowledge in Scriptures, when they follow their own private judgment, and so fall from the faith.
Pope Pius XII, Humani Generis, 1950, #9
"Catholic theologians and philosophers, whose grave duty it is to defend natural and supernatural truth and instill it in the hearts of men, cannot afford to ignore or neglect these more or less erroneous opinions...diseases are not properly treated unless they are rightly diagnosed."
Pope Pius XII, Menti Nostrae - Thoughts for the Clergy of the World (1950)
Let your apostolic zeal shine with benign charity. If it be necessary -- and it is everyone's duty -- to fight error and repel vice, the soul of the priest must be ever open to compassion. Error must be fought with all our might, but the brother who errs must be loved intensely and brought to salvation...he who to please men would gloss over their evil inclinations or be indulgent about their incorrect ways of thinking or acting, thereby prejudicing Christian teaching and integrity of morals, would be betraying his ministry.
This is why it is very much in Mr. Voris' responsibility to combat what Fr. Barron is putting out on such a broad scale. It is highly dangerous, to be likened to unstable C4 in the hands of people not properly being told to stop dinking around and misbehaving. IT IS OUR DUTY TO FIGHT ERROR AND REPEL VICE...NOT TO ENCOURAGE INDIFFERENTISM BY SUGGESTING THERE IS GOOD HOPE ALL ARE SAVED!!
We may find the hope of an empty Hell foolish in its improbability or even impossible in light of our own understanding of scripture or private revelation like Fatima.Just when I thought it couldn't get any more cliché he pulls out the "private revelation" card about Fatima. I hate to say it, but Mr. O is demonstrating a really poorly formed argument and is putting the regurgitation of the post-conciliar EWTN media on full display.
I could go into great detail about why Fatima cannot just be considered another "Private Revelation," but a number of other priests (YES, other PRIESTS...so of the same level as Fr. Barron) and theologians have already sufficiently explained why it cannot be viewed as such.
Also, two audiosermons:
Bottom line is that, based on the Miracle of the Sun alone, to suggest we do not have to adhere to the message of Our Lady at Fatima is no less than to despise God, as Sister Lucy put it. If we do not believe it was Our Lady (which would be what we are declaring by not following the message) is to suggest it must be purely diabolical, which is in fact what has been repeatedly declared by Rome about Medjugorje...and yet so many of the "Church of Nice" continue to espouse it in spite of Pope Emeritus Benedict's ban under pain of mortal sin to anyone who goes on a pilgrimage there.
Okay, sorry...a bit off track there, but worth pointing out the difference.
Such hope [in universal salvation], however, in no way contradicts our Catholic belief, nor does it detract from the Truth. In fact, such hope in salvation and trust in God’s mercy seems invaluable to the salvation of many.No. This is false hope. There is no source to support the belief that we ought to have good hope that many are saved. None. Sacred Scripture, at the risk of being accuses as so many times in the past of being my own interpreter or Sola Scriptura, says explicitly the opposite. And this is a subject Fr. Barron has also been refuted on in the past by the likes of Ralph Martin, among others...if you want to turn to a not-so-infallible post-conciliar author (rather than infallible Popes).
Why are we striking at the heel of the Church when we should be striking at the head of actual heresies?
Good question! Why isn’t the Church condemning heresies anymore? Again, it was made abundantly clear by Pope John XXIII that the goal of the Second Vatican Council (and, sadly, the subsequent 50 years) was NOT to declare error, refute heresy, or condemn actions. It was to "leave aside, for the moment, those elements in which we differ" so that we can all just "come together."
So where all the "ancient" Popes said we must fight error, the last 5 tell us we must ignore it and just focus on what we have in common.Pope Paul VI, Ecclesiam Suam, 1964, #109We readily accept the principle of stressing what we all have in common rather than what divides us.
Can anyone provide me a link to something remotely authoritative or declarative by the Church in the last 50 years condemning anything? Heck, we are getting ready to have a 500 year CELEBRATION of the largest Satanic victory in the last 2,000 years! (If you don't agree, watch this video).
Here is info on this abominable celebration:
We must stop trying to “defend” our faith against fellow faithful Catholics and instead turn our energy towards real dangers. Our world keeps them in ample supply without us having to resort to condemning the “naivety” of Catholics next door.What are these real dangers? He doesn't list any...and if nobody goes to hell, or at least we have good hope all are saved, why do we need to do anything?
We know that there are people in Hell. Judas is definitely in Hell. No doubt. He hung himself after betraying our Lord, the ultimate "sin against the Holy Ghost."
The man on the cross next to our Lord who did NOT repent is in Hell.
These two we can definitively declare are in Hell with or without ex cathedra backing.
We can also safely assume other prominent evil men of history to be in hell:
Do we really want to have "good hope" that these men, who showed no sign of repentance AT ALL, are in Heaven or Purgatory?? I'm surprised the anti-defamation league hasn't gone after for Fr. Barron for suggesting Hitler might not be in Hell!
I plan in the near future to do another article more specifically on the terrors of Hell. I will probably cross-reference some of the below, but for now...I will present it in a basic list format and leave it at that.
Sr. Josefa Menendez from THE WAY OF DIVINE LOVE (Our Lady told her that our Lord would show her and allow her to suffer the torments of hell that she might make it known)
- One of these damned souls cried out, “This is my torture…that I want to love and cannot; there is nothing left of me but hatred and despair.”
- Some yell because of the burning of their hands. Perhaps they were thieves, for they say, “Where is our loot now? Cursed hands…” Others curse their tongues, their eyes…whatever was the occasion of their sin…
- “I saw many worldly people fall into hell, and no words can render their horrible and terrifying cries: ‘Damned forever…I deceived myself; I am lost…I am here forever.’”
- “I saw a vast number of people fall into the fiery pit…they seemed to be worldlings and a demon cried vociferously: ‘The world is ripe for me…I know that the best way to get hold of souls is to rouse their desire for enjoyment..this sort of thing assures victory for me!’”
- “One devil to another said: ‘We’ll have to be very careful not to be found out, for we might easily be discovered.’ Another devil answered: ‘Insinuate yourselves by inducing carelessness in them…but keep in the background, so that you are not found out…by degrees they will become callous, and you will be able to incline them to evil.’”
St. Teresa of Avila – Her Vision of Hell
- While I was in prayer one day, I suddenly found that I had seemingly been put in hell. I understood tha the Lord wanted me to see the place the devils had prepared there for me and which I merited because of my sins…What I felt cannot be exaggerated, nor can it be understood…I was left terrified and still am now in writing about this almost six years later…I recall no time of trials or suffering in which it doesn’t seem to me that everything that can be suffered here on earth is nothing; so I think in a way we complain without reason.
- I marvel how after having often read books in which the pains of hell were somewhat explained I didn’t fear them or take them for what they were. (NOTE: This is exactly what is going on today; nobody talks about hell…no more FOUR LAST THINGS).
- From this experience also flow the great impulses to help souls and the extraordinary pain that is caused me by the many that are condemned (especially the Lutherans…). (NOTE: AGAIN...GETTING READY TO CELEBRATE 500 YEAR ANNIVERSARY!?)
- If here on earth knowing that finally life will end and that it has its limit, we are still moved to so much compassion, I don’t know how we can resist in regard to the other endless life when we see how the devil brings so many souls each day with himself to hell. This awareness makes me desire that in a matter so important we don’t grow satisfied with anything less than doing all we can on our part.
- When I think about [my former self], how I wasn’t inclined to criticize or speak evil of anyone, nor does it seem to me I could have ever wished evil on anyone…neither was I covetous, nor do I ever recall being envious…Yet, in spite of all this, I see the place the devils had already prepared for me. (BEING A ‘GOOD PERSON’ NOT ENOUGH! VIGILATE ET ORATE!)
Our Lady at Apparitions
- Fatima (via Sister Lucy May 22,1958 to Fr. Agostino Fuentes): “The Holy Virgin is very sad because no one pays any attention to her message of 1917. Neither the good nor the bad have paid any attention to it…God is about to punish the world and He will do it in a terrible way. The Heavenly chastisement is imminent…The devil knows that religious and priests who neglect their very high vocation drag many souls down to hell.”
- Fatima (via Sister Lucy May 22,1958 to Fr. Agostino Fuentes): “We have two very efficacious means at our disposal: prayer and sacrifice. The devil is doing everything he can to distract us and to take away our taste for prayer. Either we will save ourselves, or we will be damned. The Blessed Virgin told me that if we do not listen to her and continue in our offenses, we will no longer be pardoned.”
- “He who prays is certainly saved. He who prays not is certainly damned.” – St. Alphonsus Liguori (The Necessity and Power of Prayer, Chapter 1, Conclusion) >> This can even be found in the NEW Catechism #2744
- St. Frances of Rome had a vision of Hell which was granted to her showing ladies she had known who had been damned for: guilty desires (though not put into act), immodest dress (though fashionable to the world), dancing (though it was considered inoffensive to the world).
- St. Gregory the Great: “The just man who is truly concerned about his eternal salvation will from time to time think of the future Judge. He will meditate before death overtakes him upon the account he will have to give of his life…Hence, the just are ever in fear of the awful judgments of God, for they are conscious that all [their] secret sins will be brought to judgment, as St. Paul says…” (THE FOUR LAST THINGS, Fr. Martin von Cochem, 1899)
- “Don’t you know that we must be alert on the road to salvation? Only the fervent succeed in reaching it, never the tepid or those who sleep!” – St. Padre Pio
- St. Padre Pio was once asked what he thought of people who did not believe in hell. He wisely replied: “They will very well believe in hell when they get there.”
- “Dear God! If all were aware of your severity as well as of your tenderness, what creature would be so foolish as to dare to offend you?” – St. Padre Pio
- St. John Bosco on his trip to / visions of hell
- 'Poor Judas! Above seventeen hundred years have elapsed since he has been in Hell, and his Hell is still only beginning.' (St. Alphonsus Liguori)
- 'It is of faith that Heaven exists for the good and Hell for the wicked. Faith teaches that the pains of Hell are eternal, and it also warns us that one single mortal sin suffices to condemn a soul forever because of the infinite malice by which it offends an infinite God.' (St. Anthony Mary Claret) >> Worth noting that the author does not seem to grasp the gravity of hell; explain the Ignatian exercises and the meditation of one sin that damned the angels, one that damned humanity, etc.
- St. Alphonsus said that we have a finite number of sins we can commit before God will end our lives
- 'The souls of the just, although in the goodness of their nature they feel compassion. yet after they have been united to the righteousness of their Author, are constrained by such great uprightness as not to be moved with compassion towards the reprobate.' – St. Gregory (No mercy or compassion for the wicked once dead)
- 'We have been taught that only they may aim at immortality who have lived a holy and virtuous life near to God. We believe that they who live wickedly and do not repent will be punished in everlasting fire.' (St. Justin Martyr)
- 'The road to hell is open for the wicked. Once they enter into it, they will never come up again. They will be without glory or bliss and will be filled with misery and everlasting reproach... the damned will feel the pains of hell in an everlasting death because they did not will to enjoy the benefit of my death and passion and did not will to follow my will while they lived in the world.' (Jesus speaking to St. Bridget of Sweden)
- But if the wicked do penance for all his sins which he hath committed, and keep all my commandments, and do judgment, and justice, living he shall live, and shall not die…Therefore will I judge every man according to his ways, O house of Israel, saith the Lord God. Be converted, and do penance for all your iniquities: and iniquity shall not be your ruin. (Ezekiel 18:21,30)
- Say to them: As I live, saith the Lord God, I desire not the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way, and live. Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways: and why will you die, O house of Israel?... Yea, if I shall say to the just that he shall surely live, and he, trusting in his justice, commit iniquity: all his justices shall be forgotten, and in his iniquity, which he hath committed, in the same shall he die. (Ezekiel 33:11,13)
- And they shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall have made their land waste and desolate, for all their abominations which they have committed…And when that which was foretold shall come to pass, (for behold it is coming,) then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them. (Ezekiel 33:28,33)
- Note in relation to the above from LaSalette:“If my people do not wish to submit themselves, I shall be forced to let fall the arm of my son. God will strike in an unprecedented way. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth! God will exhaust His wrath upon them, and none one will be able to escape from so many combined afflictions. The leaders, the guides of the people of God have neglected prayer and penance, and the devil has bedimmed their intelligence.”
- Watch ye, therefore, praying at all times, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are to come, and to stand before the Son of man. (Luke 21:36) / Watch ye, and pray that ye enter not into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh weak. (Matthew 26:41)
- And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell. (Mt 10:28, Lk 12:5)
- Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God. (1 Cor 6:9-10)
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~ Pax et Bonum ~